Who is the cleverer?

[hypno-therapist]

Hi All,

This question is aimed at no particular therapy!

Who is the cleverer? The guy who understands the lack of science behind a particular therapy and therefore it doesn't work on him. Or a person that is open minded and allows the process to work.

Also is it ethical for a therapist to practice a therapy that he knows full well is just a placebo?

I have my thoughts on this, but what are yours?

[Paddy Landau]

I think the cleverest is the one who understands the lack of science and allows it to work anyway. Fortunately, more research is being done on the various therapies.

[hypno-therapist]

You seem to have a thing about doctors

When you get a moment please give us some examples of drugs that are less effective than placebos.

[PhoenixDawn]

The person who is aware of the lack of science and is open to allow it to work will always be the winner. As research has shown, so many times, that the belief of the individual plays such a dynamic part in whether any kind of treatment will work on them, then healing or change is ultimately down to the stronghold of the mind.

Look at the research undertaken with patients dying of cancer. The mindset of those who are told they have, say, three months to live. A good number will die within that time-scale, almost to the day they were told. Others will insist that the doctors are wrong and go on to live much longer. There's so much evidence to show that if someone 'decides' they will get well or otherwise, they will achieve exactly that which they set out to do. And I can stand testimony to this with personal experience.

So, even a client who does understand the science behind a therapy, and yet still chooses to belief it will work for others though not for them personally, is more likely to achieve little or no result.

Therefore, if a therapist utilises a placebo, in the knowledge that the client has a strong belief in the placebo, then the positive outcome for the client is really what's being aimed for. Professionally and ethically, the argument is one to be very carefully considered in the age of litigation.

Hmmm, will be interested to see what else gets posted here.

Paddy, when did the laws change re placebos? I may be out of touch, but I thought they often did prescribe placebos?

[hypno-therapist]

[PhoenixDawn]

Thanks for the welcome.

It's been a while since I read up on the cancer research and a lot of my stuff is buried in the spare room right now waiting for new bookcases after the flood damage. We were finally declared dry last week after 3 months. Needless to say, I didn't lose a single book as they were my priority for rescue! OCD perhaps?

Give me some time, and I'll aim to dig it all out and send you the details.

[hypno-therapist]

Hi PhoenixDawn,

Thanks for that.

Sorry to hear that you got hit by the floods. We were quite lucky as the water stopped about 20 meters from our front door.

I will look forward to you posting the research when you get the time to dig through the spare room for it.

Oh... don't forget to introduce yourself in the section at the top of this forum. It would be great to know a bit of your background - its always nice to be able to put a story to the name.

[Paddy Landau]

[PhoenixDawn]

Hi Richard and Paddy

Well, I'm managing to get back around to books as the house continues to be repaired - so here's a list of initial places on this subject - finally and in no particular order:

Stephanie Matthews-Simonton, O. Carl Simonton, and James L Creighton – Getting Well Again (New York Bantam Books 19809)

Jeanne Achterberg, Mind and Medicine: The Role of Imagery in Healing – ASPR Newsletter 14, No 3 June 1988
And Boston, Mass: New Science Library 1985

Bernie S Siegal – Love, Medicine, and Miracles (New York, Harper and Row 1986

Mary Orser and Richard Zarrim – Changing Your Destiny (New York Harper and Row 1989

Barbara Brown – Supermind: The Ultimate Energy (New York Harper and Row 1980)

Larry Dossey – Space, Time and Medicine (Boston, Mass: New Science Library 1982)

Brendan O’Regan – Healing, Remission and Miracle Cures – Institute of Noetic Sciences Special Report May 1987

Steven Lock and Douglas Colligan – The Healer Within (New York, New American Library 1986)

Bruno Klopfer – Psychological Variables in Human Cancer – Journal of Prospective Techniques 31 1957

Richard Alpert – Be Here Now - (San Cristoal, NM: Lama Foundation 1971)

Lyall Watson – Beyond Supernature (New York, Bantam Booiks 1988

Alfred Stelter – Psi-Healing (New York, Bantam books 1976)

Apologies that it took me so long to get this far!

Dawn

[Gandalf]

Is this the same question, or different?

*Putting on Obi Wan Kenobi voice*

"Who is the more foolish, the fool, or the fool that follows the fool?"

[R1986]

Well if a placebo is going to work in place of a prescription medication then it is my belief that the 'mental cure' is a much better solution than altering body chemistry. I can't say who is more clever in the first question asked but I wanted to voice in on the placebo versus drug aspect of this discussion at least.