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beams
Starter Member

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 55

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: Incest

I read in the news that a man confessed to raping his daughter for 24 years. his daughter was kept locked up in the basement and because of the repeated rapes, she bore children. Three of which were kept with her in the basement and the others died or were sent away.

What causes someone to do such inhumane things?

Paddy Landau
Site Moderator

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 490
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Incest

beams wrote:

What causes someone to do such inhumane things?

If anyone knew the answer to that, we'd have a magnificent therapy to use!

There are almost 6.7 billion people on this planet: 6,700,000,000.

(There aren't even that many websites on the planet!)

Somewhere in that lot there have to be some bizarre, twisted, sick individuals.

And, sadly, those very people often sincerely think they're not the ones at fault, and find justifications for their actions. So, instead of seeking help, they act out on their disgusting fantasies.

Paddy

beams
Starter Member

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 55

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject:

I agree to that. Even though they have done the most inhumane of acts, some people just can't accept what they've done. They justify their actions but no matter what they say, those actions can never be justified.

hypno-therapist
Site Moderator

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 883
Location: Witney UK

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject:

I wonder how natural incest is?

I know that this is a bizarre question, however I have see animals that are blood related 'at it', so how unnatural is it really?

Obviously here the alleged rape and incest really need to be considered as two separate behaviors.

I have meet a couple when I was much younger who were actually brother and sister. Even though I would not do it as it is not my thing, I really cant see anything wrong with it as long as both are consenting adults. Actually they seemed to 'fit' as a couple and were very happy.

Paddy Landau
Site Moderator

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 490
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject:

hypno-therapist wrote:

I wonder how natural incest is?

This is a fraught topic, because modern civilisation has changed many things.

In nature, mating among close relatives is a really bad idea, because it tends to reveal recessive genes, causing disease, disability and mental problems. That has various repercussions. For example, in a small community, it can spell disaster.

Biologically, nature has put in quite a few obstacles. Siblings (usually) fight during their formative years, which creates a certain emotional block against mating. Siblings have scents that they mutually dislike; unfortunately, the contraceptive pill and deodorants disguise or confuse these pheromones. Additionally, society has developed a social stigma around incest. This seems to be common across nearly all cultures, and so it's probably instinctive.

However, what to say in this New World of genetic tests, contraception and (soon) genetic manipulation? Must we adapt our morals for this?

Personally, I think it's premature. We still cannot guarantee the genetic health of a baby from such a union. There is little protection against (say) a father emotionally manipulating his daughter into acquiescence, or an older sister manipulating her brother. For now, I believe we ought to retain a ban.

Paddy

hypno-therapist
Site Moderator

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 883
Location: Witney UK

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:37 am Post subject:

Paddy Landau wrote:

For now, I believe we ought to retain a ban.

Even if the government were to make it illegal for these guys to have children? Wheres the freedom and what about their human rights?

I remember hearing a guy in the pub sometime ago with a similar argument... He believed that homosexual sex should be banned as it increases the risk of the spread of HIV. I tried to point out that he was missing the point, but didn't get to far... Wink

Paddy Landau
Site Moderator

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 490
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: Incest

hypno-therapist wrote:

Wheres the freedom and what about their human rights?

The problem here is that it's not just about the couple having sex.

It's also about the children that would be born with faulty genes.

And about the possibility of a relative (especially an older one) using his or her wiles to manipulate someone under their care, either explicit (as in parent-child) or implicit (as in stronger-weaker siblings).

hypno-therapist wrote:

... a guy ... believed that homosexual sex should be banned as it increases the risk of the spread of HIV.

Well, you could just as well say that he should avoid it, too, because it increases the risk of all STDs, including HIV and herpes.

Paddy

beams
Starter Member

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 55

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:38 am Post subject:

I agree with the ban.

Incest happens today even with the ban. If you allow it and make it illegal for "incest" couples to have children, do you really think they'd follow it?

I think we avoid incest because we want to produce healthy offspring to continue the race. If we all had children with someone we're related to, we'd eventually die out. Darwin's survival of the fittest.

hypno-therapist
Site Moderator

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 883
Location: Witney UK

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Incest

Paddy Landau wrote:

hypno-therapist wrote:

Wheres the freedom and what about their human rights?

The problem here is that it's not just about the couple having sex.

It's also about the children that would be born with faulty genes.

Did you not read the sentence prior to the one you quoted? It would just be about the couple, if they were having protected sex and/or using contraception... Of course... there is always abortion, however thats a whole other debate... But then again if it is ok to be used so freely by women nowadays then there really shouldn't be a problem.

And also there are other forms of sex - not just those involving vaginal penetration.

I wounder what Freud would have thought Laughing

beams
Starter Member

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 55

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:46 am Post subject:

Freud would have probably been okay with the idea. Razz

He's always been the psychologist mostly associated with sex. Plus, it would do wonders for the Oedipus Complex.

hypno-therapist
Site Moderator

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 883
Location: Witney UK

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:47 am Post subject:

beams wrote:

If you allow it and make it illegal for "incest" couples to have children, do you really think they'd follow it?

Probably as much as they do now... Only by keeping the current law will we be potentially limiting someones human rights...

Think about it...

The only real argument against is that if they have children then the said children may have physical or mental issues.

So, by moving the goal posts of the current laws, we will still have it as illegal to mate in an incestral relationship, however the relationship and even sex is fine. This then minimizes the risk of limiting another humans rights.

Thoughts..?

beams
Starter Member

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 55

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:54 am Post subject:

What about emotionally damaging the child? In a parent-child relationship, I mean. Parents with twisted minds can abuse the law adjustment for to fulfill their own desires.

If you think about it, the whole idea is okay. It's just that society has already put up biases against it making it such an immoral act. Following the creation story, for example, there's really no other way to populate the whole world unless it's through incest. The argument may be absurd, because the Bible isn't to be taken literally. But most people do.

The main problem I see here, is the Church.

hypno-therapist
Site Moderator

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 883
Location: Witney UK

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject:

beams wrote:

What about emotionally damaging the child? In a parent-child relationship, I mean. Parents with twisted minds can abuse the law adjustment for to fulfill their own desires.

OK so any law would have to be complex rather than simple, however it would still be better than the current one.

beams wrote:

If you think about it, the whole idea is okay. It's just that society has already put up biases against it making it such an immoral act. Following the creation story, for example, there's really no other way to populate the whole world unless it's through incest. The argument may be absurd, because the Bible isn't to be taken literally. But most people do.

The bible? Whats that? Laughing

beams wrote:

The main problem I see here, is the Church.

As always... And if only they could sort themselves out!!! I am not a big fan of religion... More people have died in the name of god than any disease.

beams
Starter Member

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 55

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject:

I believe in religion but not to the extent of demeaning one's rights and dignity.

Quote:

More people have died in the name of god than any disease.

True. But that's how strong their faith is. Religion plays a big part in people's lives. That's why they are able to die for it. I'd rather die for something I believe in than die because of some disease.

hypno-therapist
Site Moderator

Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 883
Location: Witney UK

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject:

beams wrote:

Religion plays a big part in people's lives. That's why they are able to die for it. I'd rather die for something I believe in than die because of some disease.

Hmm, not really what I meant...

Think of the events all over the world where people have been murdered in the name of a so-called loving god... And its not just a recent thing... People have been persecuted, ridiculed and murdered for ever by people that feel that they have to inflict their beliefs, views and way of lives on others...

Now how natural is that I wonder? IMO the church/religion should have nothing to do with politics and law making... The world might just be a safer place then.

Life is about experiences... not faith in future experiences... Hope that makes sense Wink

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